David:
Disney Studios next animated feature is titled Moana. According to it's synopsis:
"An adventurous teenager sails out on a daring mission to save her people. During her journey, Moana meets the once-mighty demigod Maui, who guides her in her quest to become a master way-finder. Together they sail across the open ocean on an action-packed voyage, encountering enormous monsters and impossible odds. Along the way, Moana fulfills the ancient quest of her ancestors and discovers the one thing she always sought: her own identity."
But, the movie has already run afoul of the PC police. It seems that Polynesian peoples, including the Maori people of New Zealand, have decided the movie is guilty of cultural appropriation, by depicting characters from their folklore. Disney has already pulled Halloween costumes after being accused of participating in "poly-face", a polynesian take on black-face makeup.
I had never heard of Maui before as a mythological character, but only as one of Hawaii's islands. By telling this tale, isn't Disney promoting Polynesian culture?
Doug:
You know that "PC police" aren't really police, right? These are actual Polynesian people that didn't like how the Halloween costumes depicted them. Remember, "PC" only means "be respectful." So, Disney rightfully pulled the plug on the costumes. Disney is still going to show the movie, so you'll still get to learn important cultural history through your preferred medium.
I'm sure Fairchild's statement "It was wrong to sell a costume that allowed children to pretend to be another race" is probably something with which Disney agrees.
David:
But what about Mulan? What about the female lead in Moana? What about Tiana, the lead female character from the Princess Frog? These are characters that are also a different race, and yet no one complained about costumes with those movies.
Doug:
Oh, I'm sure that there have been people that were not happy with the portrayals of these characters.
David:
Little white girls dressing up as a Polynesian girl, a black princess, or a Japanese warrior was okay before. The cultural crime of cultural appropriation is a new phenomenon. Disney, and many others across a broad spectrum, in art, fashion, literature, and even cuisine have been recently attacked for cultural appropriation, the new PC battle cry. America has always been a melting pot of cultures and races, which has enriched us all, and made America something different. Our language is a confluence of words and dialects from all over the world. But now, we are not allowed to use words, fashion, music, or anything else that originated from another culture.
Doug:
Don't get confused: you are allowed to be as ignorant as you wish. And Disney could sell the costumes if they wanted. But I will point out that these costumes actually come with the character's skin. You actually wear their tattooed skin:
Isn't that a little different than other costumes?
David:
Yes...and no.
It appears that you believe that a Chinese seamstress, working with her magic sewing machine, can turn some ordinary padding and fabric into someone's skin. Let me assure you that no one is wearing anyone's skin. This isn't Silence of the Lambs.
Doug:
Why in your mind it is a Chinese woman making these costumes? But you got me on that one. I should have said metaphorical skin.
David:
The costumes are made in China. I suppose Xi Jinping, the Chinese president, might be sewing the costumes in the palace basement. I should not have assumed it would be a seamstress doing the sewing.
Doug:
I don't know how you would have found out they were made in China... the costumes were pulled off of the shelves. Why is it when conservatives are caught, they say something like "I suppose the president of China is making them in his basement" or "Yeah, I was out working the cones." You could have just said "Oops, that was a bit of a stereotype. Sorry."
David: While you, as an adult, may say that the child is wearing someone else skin, that isn't correct either in reality or in the child's mind. If you asked the child, "are you trying to be a Polynesian boy?", the child would look at you with incredulous eyes and say, "No! I'm Maui!". When the child puts on the costume, he sees himself as a character, the mighty Maui, a demigod of the oceans, a powerful warrior. He would recognize the tattoos, and would recognize that tattoos are on skin, but would likely argue with you that he is not wearing anyone's skin. You are projecting your adult beliefs and understanding (completely lacking in imagination) onto children. It would be different if you wore this costume. Adults have different interpretations of events and context, that children do not. The little boy would not have even seen that there is a difference in skin color until you pointed it out.
There have been numerous other costumes that have met no resistance at all: Tarzan, Tonto, and Hercules, to name a few.
You're projecting adult interpretations onto children. Children do not see themselves as transforming into another race. They see themselves as becoming a character. That's different.
Doug:
Yes, as an adult I let children know that that isn't appropriate behavior. By your own logic, blackface is perfectly acceptable. Even college kids make these mistakes, but that is no reason to say "kids will be kids."
David:
What I'm saying is that children would not even see the different colors of skin, if you didn't make it an issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/08/21/to-the-new-culture-cops-everything-is-appropriation/?postshare=2461475353699053&tid=ss_mail&utm_term=.186ffdc61c77
And this goes further than being respectful. Disney, and many others in various fields, are not being disrespectful.
Doug:
Nope, you don't get to decide.
David:
Yes, I do.
Doug:
No. I think you fundamentally don't understand the asymmetry: being white and dressing up as black versus being black and dressing up as white. These are not the same in our culture. You may not like the fact that they are different, but they are.
David:
Because you apparently get to decide that. Got it. Because you're liberal, and you care.
Disney designers certainly didn't sit down one day and say, "hey, who can we insult today?"
Doug:
I agree. But this subtle racism seeps in very easily. But Disney did the right thing in the end and pulled the costumes.
David:
They took great care to bring a story to life that represents Polynesian culture. It's a small group of people who decided to be offended at their efforts that caused the problem we are now discussing. Disney, along with many other artists, designers, and even chefs, are incorporating other cultural ideas into our culture, creating a new blend, and a more diverse culture. They are introducing cultural stories, symbols, and characters into our mainstream. But that's a terrible sin, according to the PC police, which appears to be anyone offended by anything these days.
"Marama Fox , a co-leader of New Zealand's indigenous Maori Party and a member of New Zealand's parliament, said the costume was a case of cultural misappropriation and an example of a company trying to profit off of another culture's intellectual property.
She also goes much further than just discussing the costume. She believes the entire movie, because it portrays Polynesians, is inappropriate. If you follow her lead, white people can only write about, or make movies about white people, and the same goes for blacks, or women, etc.
Doug:
No one said that. But you do say "mythological" and I wonder what the difference is between that and "religious". Is it because if you describe it as "mythological" then that gives you the privilege to use it in whatever way you like?
David:
As if people don't use God or Jesus in any way they wish. God has appeared in a great many movies and cartoons through the years. Sometimes with the express desire to offend Christians. Just don't draw a certain Muslim Prophet who's names starts with M. You'll end up dead.
You can actually go on Amazon.com right now and buy a Jesus costume. If you Google "Jesus at Halloween Parties", you'll find that many people dress as Jesus, complete with crown of thorns and spatters of blood. Hilarious, right? If someone showed up as Jesus at one of your parties, explaining to everyone that it was all a big mis-understanding, and he's really not the Son of God, yada, yada, yada, you'd probably think it was funny. Does that offend me? Certainly it does. It's intended to offend me....
but....
There. I'm over it. I'm offended, but I don't spend more than a second, or spend any more time thinking about it. I get to choose how I view the world, and how I spend my time. There are more productive things to do than to look for offenses around every corner.
Doug:
That isn't for you to decide how everyone should feel. If there are those that are offended, then they should speak up. But I don't think you are upset with random people complaining that they don't like one thing or another. You are upset because Disney agrees with them, and are taking action. Isn't this really that Disney is showing that it has different values than you do, and that bothers you.
David:
Disney is in the business of entertainment, and they will do whatever they think is best for their business. I don't blame them for anything. What I am bothered with, is a minority of folks who are thin-skinned and easily offended bullying others into accepting their viewpoints.
Doug:
It is exactly because they are a minority that we should respect their views.
David:
What you seem to misunderstand is that you can respect someone's views, without accepting their viewpoint as accurate. I respect you and your views, even though you are usually wrong. Political correctness is an attempt to force me into accepting and condoning your viewpoints.
Even in sports, a vocal minority can create a giant scandal. It is unproven that the few loud voices actually represent the groups they proclaim they represent. A recent poll of Native Americans shows that there has been no change in the opinion of Natives during the past 12 years. An overwhelming majority either don't care about the name Redskins, or are proud of the name. They certainly are not offended. Some Native American schools have Redskins as their moniker.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html
Doug:
I don't think vocal minorities can create a "giant scandal." Unless they actually have a point. Some Native Americans quoted in the article mentioned some issues with the poll, and that sounds right. But there are more people these days that just find that kind of stereotypical usage offensive. It would be in the team's best interest not to offend people.
David:
However, the people you mentioned who are offended are not Native Americans. You are offended for them. They don't care. In the old days, that would make you a busybody.
Doug:
I don't like the n-word, but I am not black. I am offended for me. You can call me names (that's what bullies do) but that doesn't make me feel differently.
David:
That's my point exactly! There are all sorts of things that may offend you, but that doesn't mean it offends anyone else, and what someone else says doesn't mean that you have to internalize it or feel differently. You can choose to walk away and get over it. Or, you can decide to let it affect you in a negative way.
Even folks who once argued against "cultural appropriation" feel the movement has swung way too far. Instead of a call to bring diverse people together, cultural appropriation zealots are creating division in the name of diversity. Here is a nice article illustrating how this author has changed their position:
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/cultural-appropriation-in-fashion-stop-talking-about-it/370826/
I realize you live in a PC universe, and everything you say or do must first be self-analyzed to make sure all of your micro-aggressions are in check, and everything anyone else says or does must be judged by the same criteria. But most of the rest of us do not live in that world. Most of us are not looking to be offended, and if someone says something that might be offensive, you ignore them. Most of us do not go around judging others, or living in a world of one offense after another. We get along with others, and get along with our lives, and enjoy our friends. And we enjoy Chinese foods, German-engineered products, Italian pasta, and dozens of other things created from, and borrowed from many other cultures.
By the way, you can't wear a bathrobe anymore, because bathrobes originated from the Japanese yukata. If you do wear one, you're a cultural misappropriator! Shame! Shame!
Doug:
I do care about not hurting other people's feelings for no reason. I don't want to disrespect Polynesian people. Most of us do live in that world where we care, apparently. Otherwise Disney wouldn't pull the costumes. And you don't get to tell a race of people that they shouldn't be offended. You have developed a very rich understanding of Chinese and Italian people through your choices of cuisine. I find your callous dismissal of their valid concerns embarrassing.
David:
Perhaps I need to remind you of the poor white people (clinging to their guns and Bibles) who live in Western Pennsylvania, or West Virginia, and are now unemployed due to Obama's green-energy agenda that destroyed the coal industry. You don't mind calling them "deplorable".
Doug:
You need to at least try to stick to the topic. I call racists deplorable, wherever they live. You want to turn that attack on everyone. There are many people that are racist... we all are a little bit. The ones that try to hide their racism are the worst.
David:
Ah, but you and Hillary didn't decry racist as deplorable. You two said that half of Donald Trump's supporters were deplorable. That's a big difference. Unless you are making the broad assumption that his supporters are racist, which is painting a very broad picture with a very broad brush. You seem to have a callous dismissal of their very valid concerns. They are Americans who have their own culture. But they don't follow your ideology, so therefore you don't have to care about their feelings, or offending them, or calling the deplorable. Apparently, some people and groups are fair to target. You might even have some "poor-white-trash Trump supporters" at your Halloween party, all dressed up and saying stupid things about the loss of their culture and their way of life. Hilarious. Some might say it's hypocritical to lecture someone about their behavior while engaging in the same behavior.
Doug:
Your imagination of my Halloween party is ugly. I would not stoop to such behavior. Why would you think I would?
David:
I have heard your opinions of both Christians and out-of-work Trump supporters.
Doug:
I have no idea what you are talking about. You certainly like to jump far to your conclusions.
David: Again, you are hiding behind a stated desire not to hurt other's feelings. But you can't control how other people feel.
Doug:
Oh, but I can. I don't say offensive things. See how easy that is?
David:
Two words: micro-aggressions. You may not intend to say something offensive, but I might still be offended by what you say. You didn't mean it to be that way, but you can't control the interpretation of your words. That's the very definition of micro-aggressions. You are a college professor, so you should know that.
Doug:
Yes, and when you learn that something is offensive (micro-aggression or not) you stop saying that. And then you don't say offensive things. See?
David: What if a certain truth hurts other's feelings? Should you not be able to tell the truth? African-Americans are responsible for more violent crime than any other race in America, by a wide margin. They probably don't want to hear that. It might even hurt their feelings to tell them that they have a violent culture. But to solve the problem of violence in our country, we need to discuss the truth. Here, though, we aren't talking about murder. We are only talking about cloth and padding (and magic sewing machines).
Doug:
You really have a warped sense of reality.
David:
Reality is, well, reality. What's warped is that more blacks have been killed in Chicago than in all of our wars since 9-11, and yet no one wants to talk about it. Hillary encourages protestors to throw rocks at police, rather than discuss the real threat that young black men face.
Disney Studios has told many stories and made many films through the years that we have all treasured. And some of those tales have broadened our understanding of other cultures. The old TV series, Wonderful World of Disney, travelled the world specifically to show other cultures, and several episodes dealt with Polynesian culture. One of the hotels at Disney World is The Polynesian Resort, with art, cuisine, and decor all representing that culture. That's a good thing. But in your PC world, Disney might not be able to create such place, as a few Polynesians might accuse them of cultural appropriation. They might even sue Disney. And Disney would likely back down, because the PC climate, and our new culture of victimhood, would create a news story. The media would likely give voice to the offended, vocal minority. It's that type of bullying, in the name of being offended, that needs to stop.
Doug:
There are many people who find Disney's selling of culture to be offensive. People that are offended are not the bullies. You have an upside down view of the world where those minorities are being mean to the Disney megacompany.
David:
Right. They're upset that Disney makes a profit. And a company that makes a profit is offensive. I agree with you that is what they're really upset about.
But, hey, it's a small world, after all. Let's all share our cultures with each other instead of hoarding them from each other.
Disney Studios next animated feature is titled Moana. According to it's synopsis:
"An adventurous teenager sails out on a daring mission to save her people. During her journey, Moana meets the once-mighty demigod Maui, who guides her in her quest to become a master way-finder. Together they sail across the open ocean on an action-packed voyage, encountering enormous monsters and impossible odds. Along the way, Moana fulfills the ancient quest of her ancestors and discovers the one thing she always sought: her own identity."
But, the movie has already run afoul of the PC police. It seems that Polynesian peoples, including the Maori people of New Zealand, have decided the movie is guilty of cultural appropriation, by depicting characters from their folklore. Disney has already pulled Halloween costumes after being accused of participating in "poly-face", a polynesian take on black-face makeup.
I had never heard of Maui before as a mythological character, but only as one of Hawaii's islands. By telling this tale, isn't Disney promoting Polynesian culture?
Doug:
You know that "PC police" aren't really police, right? These are actual Polynesian people that didn't like how the Halloween costumes depicted them. Remember, "PC" only means "be respectful." So, Disney rightfully pulled the plug on the costumes. Disney is still going to show the movie, so you'll still get to learn important cultural history through your preferred medium.
I'm sure Fairchild's statement "It was wrong to sell a costume that allowed children to pretend to be another race" is probably something with which Disney agrees.
David:
But what about Mulan? What about the female lead in Moana? What about Tiana, the lead female character from the Princess Frog? These are characters that are also a different race, and yet no one complained about costumes with those movies.
Doug:
Oh, I'm sure that there have been people that were not happy with the portrayals of these characters.
David:
Little white girls dressing up as a Polynesian girl, a black princess, or a Japanese warrior was okay before. The cultural crime of cultural appropriation is a new phenomenon. Disney, and many others across a broad spectrum, in art, fashion, literature, and even cuisine have been recently attacked for cultural appropriation, the new PC battle cry. America has always been a melting pot of cultures and races, which has enriched us all, and made America something different. Our language is a confluence of words and dialects from all over the world. But now, we are not allowed to use words, fashion, music, or anything else that originated from another culture.
Doug:
Don't get confused: you are allowed to be as ignorant as you wish. And Disney could sell the costumes if they wanted. But I will point out that these costumes actually come with the character's skin. You actually wear their tattooed skin:
 |
| Disney's Maui costume that was pulled from shelves. |
David:
Yes...and no.
It appears that you believe that a Chinese seamstress, working with her magic sewing machine, can turn some ordinary padding and fabric into someone's skin. Let me assure you that no one is wearing anyone's skin. This isn't Silence of the Lambs.
Doug:
Why in your mind it is a Chinese woman making these costumes? But you got me on that one. I should have said metaphorical skin.
David:
The costumes are made in China. I suppose Xi Jinping, the Chinese president, might be sewing the costumes in the palace basement. I should not have assumed it would be a seamstress doing the sewing.
Doug:
I don't know how you would have found out they were made in China... the costumes were pulled off of the shelves. Why is it when conservatives are caught, they say something like "I suppose the president of China is making them in his basement" or "Yeah, I was out working the cones." You could have just said "Oops, that was a bit of a stereotype. Sorry."
David: While you, as an adult, may say that the child is wearing someone else skin, that isn't correct either in reality or in the child's mind. If you asked the child, "are you trying to be a Polynesian boy?", the child would look at you with incredulous eyes and say, "No! I'm Maui!". When the child puts on the costume, he sees himself as a character, the mighty Maui, a demigod of the oceans, a powerful warrior. He would recognize the tattoos, and would recognize that tattoos are on skin, but would likely argue with you that he is not wearing anyone's skin. You are projecting your adult beliefs and understanding (completely lacking in imagination) onto children. It would be different if you wore this costume. Adults have different interpretations of events and context, that children do not. The little boy would not have even seen that there is a difference in skin color until you pointed it out.
There have been numerous other costumes that have met no resistance at all: Tarzan, Tonto, and Hercules, to name a few.
You're projecting adult interpretations onto children. Children do not see themselves as transforming into another race. They see themselves as becoming a character. That's different.
Doug:
Yes, as an adult I let children know that that isn't appropriate behavior. By your own logic, blackface is perfectly acceptable. Even college kids make these mistakes, but that is no reason to say "kids will be kids."
David:
What I'm saying is that children would not even see the different colors of skin, if you didn't make it an issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/08/21/to-the-new-culture-cops-everything-is-appropriation/?postshare=2461475353699053&tid=ss_mail&utm_term=.186ffdc61c77
And this goes further than being respectful. Disney, and many others in various fields, are not being disrespectful.
Doug:
Nope, you don't get to decide.
David:
Yes, I do.
Doug:
No. I think you fundamentally don't understand the asymmetry: being white and dressing up as black versus being black and dressing up as white. These are not the same in our culture. You may not like the fact that they are different, but they are.
David:
Because you apparently get to decide that. Got it. Because you're liberal, and you care.
Disney designers certainly didn't sit down one day and say, "hey, who can we insult today?"
Doug:
I agree. But this subtle racism seeps in very easily. But Disney did the right thing in the end and pulled the costumes.
David:
They took great care to bring a story to life that represents Polynesian culture. It's a small group of people who decided to be offended at their efforts that caused the problem we are now discussing. Disney, along with many other artists, designers, and even chefs, are incorporating other cultural ideas into our culture, creating a new blend, and a more diverse culture. They are introducing cultural stories, symbols, and characters into our mainstream. But that's a terrible sin, according to the PC police, which appears to be anyone offended by anything these days.
The movie itself, she said, appeared to be playing into stereotypes.
"It depicts Maui as a bit of a beefy guy, and not in a good way. That's not the picture I have of the Maui who fished up the North Island , and had a number of feats attributed to him," she said."
This person is upset that Disney didn't portray a mythological character the way she imagined he should look. Seriously. Disney should not have been allowed to make Hercules according to this woman, as that mythological character is the "cultural intellectual property" of Greece. (And I don't think Hercules looked like that anyway. He was a little taller, and had darker hair.)She also goes much further than just discussing the costume. She believes the entire movie, because it portrays Polynesians, is inappropriate. If you follow her lead, white people can only write about, or make movies about white people, and the same goes for blacks, or women, etc.
Doug:
No one said that. But you do say "mythological" and I wonder what the difference is between that and "religious". Is it because if you describe it as "mythological" then that gives you the privilege to use it in whatever way you like?
David:
As if people don't use God or Jesus in any way they wish. God has appeared in a great many movies and cartoons through the years. Sometimes with the express desire to offend Christians. Just don't draw a certain Muslim Prophet who's names starts with M. You'll end up dead.
You can actually go on Amazon.com right now and buy a Jesus costume. If you Google "Jesus at Halloween Parties", you'll find that many people dress as Jesus, complete with crown of thorns and spatters of blood. Hilarious, right? If someone showed up as Jesus at one of your parties, explaining to everyone that it was all a big mis-understanding, and he's really not the Son of God, yada, yada, yada, you'd probably think it was funny. Does that offend me? Certainly it does. It's intended to offend me....
but....
There. I'm over it. I'm offended, but I don't spend more than a second, or spend any more time thinking about it. I get to choose how I view the world, and how I spend my time. There are more productive things to do than to look for offenses around every corner.
Doug:
That isn't for you to decide how everyone should feel. If there are those that are offended, then they should speak up. But I don't think you are upset with random people complaining that they don't like one thing or another. You are upset because Disney agrees with them, and are taking action. Isn't this really that Disney is showing that it has different values than you do, and that bothers you.
David:
Disney is in the business of entertainment, and they will do whatever they think is best for their business. I don't blame them for anything. What I am bothered with, is a minority of folks who are thin-skinned and easily offended bullying others into accepting their viewpoints.
Doug:
It is exactly because they are a minority that we should respect their views.
David:
What you seem to misunderstand is that you can respect someone's views, without accepting their viewpoint as accurate. I respect you and your views, even though you are usually wrong. Political correctness is an attempt to force me into accepting and condoning your viewpoints.
Even in sports, a vocal minority can create a giant scandal. It is unproven that the few loud voices actually represent the groups they proclaim they represent. A recent poll of Native Americans shows that there has been no change in the opinion of Natives during the past 12 years. An overwhelming majority either don't care about the name Redskins, or are proud of the name. They certainly are not offended. Some Native American schools have Redskins as their moniker.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html
Doug:
I don't think vocal minorities can create a "giant scandal." Unless they actually have a point. Some Native Americans quoted in the article mentioned some issues with the poll, and that sounds right. But there are more people these days that just find that kind of stereotypical usage offensive. It would be in the team's best interest not to offend people.
David:
However, the people you mentioned who are offended are not Native Americans. You are offended for them. They don't care. In the old days, that would make you a busybody.
Doug:
I don't like the n-word, but I am not black. I am offended for me. You can call me names (that's what bullies do) but that doesn't make me feel differently.
David:
That's my point exactly! There are all sorts of things that may offend you, but that doesn't mean it offends anyone else, and what someone else says doesn't mean that you have to internalize it or feel differently. You can choose to walk away and get over it. Or, you can decide to let it affect you in a negative way.
Even folks who once argued against "cultural appropriation" feel the movement has swung way too far. Instead of a call to bring diverse people together, cultural appropriation zealots are creating division in the name of diversity. Here is a nice article illustrating how this author has changed their position:
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/cultural-appropriation-in-fashion-stop-talking-about-it/370826/
I realize you live in a PC universe, and everything you say or do must first be self-analyzed to make sure all of your micro-aggressions are in check, and everything anyone else says or does must be judged by the same criteria. But most of the rest of us do not live in that world. Most of us are not looking to be offended, and if someone says something that might be offensive, you ignore them. Most of us do not go around judging others, or living in a world of one offense after another. We get along with others, and get along with our lives, and enjoy our friends. And we enjoy Chinese foods, German-engineered products, Italian pasta, and dozens of other things created from, and borrowed from many other cultures.
By the way, you can't wear a bathrobe anymore, because bathrobes originated from the Japanese yukata. If you do wear one, you're a cultural misappropriator! Shame! Shame!
Doug:
I do care about not hurting other people's feelings for no reason. I don't want to disrespect Polynesian people. Most of us do live in that world where we care, apparently. Otherwise Disney wouldn't pull the costumes. And you don't get to tell a race of people that they shouldn't be offended. You have developed a very rich understanding of Chinese and Italian people through your choices of cuisine. I find your callous dismissal of their valid concerns embarrassing.
David:
Perhaps I need to remind you of the poor white people (clinging to their guns and Bibles) who live in Western Pennsylvania, or West Virginia, and are now unemployed due to Obama's green-energy agenda that destroyed the coal industry. You don't mind calling them "deplorable".
Doug:
You need to at least try to stick to the topic. I call racists deplorable, wherever they live. You want to turn that attack on everyone. There are many people that are racist... we all are a little bit. The ones that try to hide their racism are the worst.
David:
Ah, but you and Hillary didn't decry racist as deplorable. You two said that half of Donald Trump's supporters were deplorable. That's a big difference. Unless you are making the broad assumption that his supporters are racist, which is painting a very broad picture with a very broad brush. You seem to have a callous dismissal of their very valid concerns. They are Americans who have their own culture. But they don't follow your ideology, so therefore you don't have to care about their feelings, or offending them, or calling the deplorable. Apparently, some people and groups are fair to target. You might even have some "poor-white-trash Trump supporters" at your Halloween party, all dressed up and saying stupid things about the loss of their culture and their way of life. Hilarious. Some might say it's hypocritical to lecture someone about their behavior while engaging in the same behavior.
Doug:
Your imagination of my Halloween party is ugly. I would not stoop to such behavior. Why would you think I would?
David:
I have heard your opinions of both Christians and out-of-work Trump supporters.
Doug:
I have no idea what you are talking about. You certainly like to jump far to your conclusions.
David: Again, you are hiding behind a stated desire not to hurt other's feelings. But you can't control how other people feel.
Doug:
Oh, but I can. I don't say offensive things. See how easy that is?
David:
Two words: micro-aggressions. You may not intend to say something offensive, but I might still be offended by what you say. You didn't mean it to be that way, but you can't control the interpretation of your words. That's the very definition of micro-aggressions. You are a college professor, so you should know that.
Doug:
Yes, and when you learn that something is offensive (micro-aggression or not) you stop saying that. And then you don't say offensive things. See?
David: What if a certain truth hurts other's feelings? Should you not be able to tell the truth? African-Americans are responsible for more violent crime than any other race in America, by a wide margin. They probably don't want to hear that. It might even hurt their feelings to tell them that they have a violent culture. But to solve the problem of violence in our country, we need to discuss the truth. Here, though, we aren't talking about murder. We are only talking about cloth and padding (and magic sewing machines).
Doug:
You really have a warped sense of reality.
David:
Reality is, well, reality. What's warped is that more blacks have been killed in Chicago than in all of our wars since 9-11, and yet no one wants to talk about it. Hillary encourages protestors to throw rocks at police, rather than discuss the real threat that young black men face.
Disney Studios has told many stories and made many films through the years that we have all treasured. And some of those tales have broadened our understanding of other cultures. The old TV series, Wonderful World of Disney, travelled the world specifically to show other cultures, and several episodes dealt with Polynesian culture. One of the hotels at Disney World is The Polynesian Resort, with art, cuisine, and decor all representing that culture. That's a good thing. But in your PC world, Disney might not be able to create such place, as a few Polynesians might accuse them of cultural appropriation. They might even sue Disney. And Disney would likely back down, because the PC climate, and our new culture of victimhood, would create a news story. The media would likely give voice to the offended, vocal minority. It's that type of bullying, in the name of being offended, that needs to stop.
Doug:
There are many people who find Disney's selling of culture to be offensive. People that are offended are not the bullies. You have an upside down view of the world where those minorities are being mean to the Disney megacompany.
David:
Right. They're upset that Disney makes a profit. And a company that makes a profit is offensive. I agree with you that is what they're really upset about.
But, hey, it's a small world, after all. Let's all share our cultures with each other instead of hoarding them from each other.
Wow! Heard about this blog on Radio Times earlier today, really cool discussions! I often find myself trapped within my own polital social circles, so to see such polarized views in a side by side dialog is very interesting!
ReplyDeleteDoug, you're a very patient man. I wish you both brothers the best!!
Thanks! Appreciate the comments!
Delete